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Freedom Collection

Interviews with Mohsen Sazegara

Interviewed February 4, 2010

I remember that the first time that I was in jail only for 24 hours, was really a turning point for me. Because you know while I was out of jail. I was at the top positions. I heard about something. Some torture. Some– brutalities in prisons. But believe me, I– I– I said to myself sometimes that they are exaggerations. They are propaganda of the opposition groups. But when I was for the first time in prison, I saw many things, I heard some things that– when by the order of Ayatollah Khomeini, the leader, I was released, because– I was at the head of IDRO and in charge of 140 factories of the country.

So, I was released, but– directly in the morning. Early in the morning with– Mr. Nabavi, we went to visit Ayatollah Khomeini, the leader, and his son Ahmad was in that meeting. In that meeting, I explained for Ayatollah Khomeini, the leader, that whatever Mr. Logivardi’s doing in Evin Prison, I don’t know if you are aware of that or not. If you know about whatever he’s doing, okay. And you agree. Please tell me.

I made a mistake that I came to Paris. I joined you. And I followed you to Iran. And I came– I was with you. And if you don’t agree with whatever he does, why don’t you prevent it? Why don’t you– dismiss him? Why don’t you– even– you know, trial him.

I remember that Ayatollah Khomeini was listening very carefully. And he– he didn’t say anything. When we came– you know, because I quoted him some scenes that I so– especially a sentence from an interrogator that was shouting over the head of a girl– that said that– okay– take her and– torture her to– to kick her more– beat her more. And– she said that, “No, please– I can’t tolerate anymore– anymore lashes.”

And he said that the interrogator said that– you– when– when you can’t tolerate– some– a few lashes from the interrogator, how you can tolerate the punishment of the god in the judgment day? I quoted this to Ayatollah Khomeini and said that– who has told an interrogator that– he is– you know, an agent of the god? And– he can judge the people like– the god? And you know that this– this type of idea is how dangerous.

And a person who thinks– like this can easily kill the people. I remember that Ayatollah Khomeini listened very carefully and said nothing. Because he understood– I– I’m sure that he knew that– this is a very, very– you know– dangerous deviation from– for– for the Islamic Republic. Anyway, when we came out of– his house after that meeting. Ahmad Ahi his son, told me that write down whatever you explained for him in a letter and write it– in big letters, because of– his eyes can read them easily.

I did that– in four or five pages. I– I wrote it down. Hand– handwriting. And I submitted to him to– tomorrow morning. One week later, Logivardi was changed. He was replaced by Ayatollah’s son Ahi. But– and– and I said to myself that, okay, that’s– just something– relate– related to this person. Fortunately, he– he was replaced and– but after awhile, gradually I found out that– there– as I said, these behaviors are not accidental. They are not because– one person or one prosecutor or one interrogator. They are essential.

When you don’t have any accountability for the rulers. When you don’t have any independent judiciary power, elected by the people. When– you don’t have any competition in the power. So, you don’t have any democracy. When the rulers they think that– they are the emissaries of God. So, they don’t need to answer to the people. They can justify whatever they do. When you have school of thought– based on jurist’s ideas. Jurisprudent ideas that they think that they can– you know, justify any crime in religious orders. So, it will be repeated. It happened several times.