Casey Rodriguez: As we focus on highlighting real-world examples of pluralism in action, I’m honored to be in conversation with Randell Trammell, who’s the President and CEO of the Center for Civic Education, Georgia Commissioner for Civic Education, and a 2023 Presidential Leadership Scholar. Thank you for joining us, Randell.
Randell Trammell: Of course, Casey. Always great to see you.
Casey Rodriguez: Always great to see you, too. Randell, I would love for you to tell us about yourself, um, and your organization in your own words to start out.
Randell Trammell: Yeah. So, I’m a native Georgian, the old country farmer says, you know, I’m Georgia born, Georgia bred, and probably one day we’ll be Georgia dead. So, I’m a native Georgian and have been here for my entire life. And, I grew up in this program as a student – It was under a different umbrella at the time – and started volunteering in college and one day they started paying me and so I stuck around and was working on my doctoral work and discovered in Georgia there was a mass void in civic education and just a gaping hole. And so, I went to the state school superintendent at the time and I said, “Hey, I’ve worked with this program. We do model legislature and a few other things. We’re in schools all over Georgia. What can I do to help?” And his response was striking to me.
He said, our teachers need support and resources, and our students need opportunity. And so, with that, I really started the Center for Civic Engagement and our mission is to educate and equip students to become informed and active citizens. So, really, that was back in 2014. So, we’re a little over 11 years into this journey and are growing at a rapid pace, not only in Georgia, but in other states as well.
Casey Rodriguez: What does pluralism mean to you and your organization, and how do you [00:02:00] carry that out in an everyday setting?
Randell Trammell: So, pluralism is a word that not many people are familiar with. And I’m a very – I like to use analogies, but the way I see it, and the way I kind of define pluralism is that most of America are between the 40 yard lines, and you’ll have 10% on this side that’s really excited about X, Y, Z issue, 10% on this side that’s really excited about X, Y, Z issue. And, by the way, those 10% on each side are very vocal. So much so that you tend to think that they are the majority. But I would assert to you, and research suggests that they’re not.
So, pluralism, quite frankly, is where most of Americans reside, and that’s what makes our communities tick. That’s what makes our congregations work. So, it is more about – and when you think of civics – it’s more about the fabric of community than anything else.
And so how that plays out in my organization is that we’re a nonpartisan organization. We work with students in K-12, and we go at teaching the governmental and legislative process through the process lens only. So, I have a saying often that we hope the process gets them – the students that is – before the politics does.
So, we’ll take issues that they care about. And, you know, typically they’re pretty controversial. The kids love controversial things, so they’ll talk about medical marijuana or something like that. And so, we’ll have the students research it, and they’ll go through the process. And then of course, in debate, people have opinions, and that other part comes out. But at the same time, they’re learning the process of how we communicate with each other and how we can disagree with each other without being disagreeable.
Casey Rodriguez: Randell, you mentioned processes. Can you explain why those would be a little bit more important, especially relating to pluralism?
Randell Trammell: For sure. Well, there’s really two kinds of thoughts I have on processes. Number one: It’s the rules by which the game is played. If you’ve got a checkerboard in front of you, and you’re playing checkers and I’m playing chess, they’re incompatible.
So, the process is when we all understand them and when we all go by the same rules of the game, then it creates an opportunity where everyone knows what to expect. If you pan in a little bit more, and this is talking more in the youth development area, learning the process is so important in terms of civic identity development.
Adolescents are developing who they are. So, you may have a teenager come in one day, and they’re dressed real preppy. The next day, they’re dressed all in black. It’s because they’re trying on these different identities, and their civic identity development is the same. So, when a student or a young person learns those processes, again, they learn the rules of the game. It makes them develop a higher level of political efficacy, which means “I know the rules, I know the players, and now I feel like I can engage with the system.” So that’s the reason with our organization and our work, we start with the processes.
Again, when you get a new board game out, most people try to start with the rules. Now I’m a guy and I hate reading rules. But if you want to play it well and you want to play it correctly, and you want to play it to win, then you need to understand the rules, and that’s what the processes are for our democracy.
Casey Rodriguez: I know you’re also a children’s book author too, so can you talk about how this plays into that, and why you started those kinds of books.
Randell Trammell: Yeah, thank you for mentioning that. I’ve written six children’s books and of them, five are really geared at teaching kids what government is, how it happens, and why.
And so, it’s part of the Mayor’s Reading Club, a number of the books are here in Georgia. And one of them is: “Georgia Caroline – named after my daughter – Visits City Hall”. And so, what goes on at City Hall? What does the mayor do? What does city council do? What are all the departments and resources they oversee?
Then the next one is “Georgia Caroline Visits Our Hometown Heroes.” Now I wanted to call it Georgia Caroline goes to jail, but she and her mom both objected to that strongly. But we visit the public safety and the EMS, and the fire department, and the police department, to see what those services are.
So, the vast majority of government that touches us is local and state government. And, outside of the political debate that happens during legislative session, for the most part, it’s just folks making sure that our water runs, that our community services are there, such as the recreation department and senior services and all that sort of stuff.
So, the idea is to get children – and I wrote these with my children in mind – to have an idea of all that goes into making our community a great place to live in.
Casey Rodriguez: Can you talk a little bit more about how important pluralism is, and why it relates to good citizenry?
Randell Trammell: Absolutely, so I guess the big word is compromise, right? And that has almost become a swear word in many political arenas. That’s essentially what pluralism is. It means, “okay, here’s the big picture.”
And I tend to be an education buff. So, we all can agree that we want our kids to be in good, successful schools; safe schools that have good teachers. Our students are having fun, learning things and just really thriving. So, it doesn’t matter where on the political spectrum you fall, I think we can all agree that’s what we want for our children and our grandchildren. So, that’s an example of pluralism. And so, we may have a different idea of which route to get to that excellence, but we can all agree on excellence.
So, you take the big things that you agree with and then you start going down the list. When I was in seminary, I had a professor that shared often: “in the big things, there’s unity. In the small things, there’s liberty. But in all things, there’s charity.” So, if you apply that to a citizenry sort of thing, in the big things, we believe in freedom and liberty and all of that sort of thing. And then when you get down into the small things, there’s liberty, there’s some freedom and that’s wonderful. But in all things, we’re proud to be Americans and we love our country and we love each other.
Casey Rodriguez: That’s amazing. I really love that advice. So, what other advice would you give to other people that are wanting to replicate this in where they live? I know you talked about what you do in the state of Georgia. Your PLP was also an extension from expanding what you do from everyday work. Your author’s books as well continue to expand on that in a different way. What other advice would you give to people outside of this work, and especially outside of Georgia too?
Randell Trammell: You know, it really comes down to having conversations with your neighbors, with your folks that are on city council, or your mayor, or your county commissioner. It’s just having those conversations and getting around in intentional conversations, where you just come around a topic and you agree that “we may not agree on everything, but it’s okay. I like vanilla ice cream. You may like chocolate chip ice cream, and that’s perfectly fine. We can agree that we both like ice cream.”
So, my advice would be to find that area that you’re passionate about serving. Mine happens to be education and civics, but yours could be homelessness or just the whole plethora of things that you could choose from. And find people in that area of concern and have conversations with them. The more we have those conversations and the more we come together and break bread together, the more that we can come to a solution that will really serve our communities well and help perpetuate our democratic republic.
Casey Rodriguez: And finally, what work still needs to be done, in your own words?
Randell Trammell: We’ve got to have more conversations. We’ve got to become less tribal. I think the equation that I shared where the big things, unity, and the small things, liberty. I think that we’ve gotten that out of balance, and we’ve really started majoring on the small things and “if you don’t agree with me on a hundred things out of a hundred, then we can’t be friends. Or, you’re not a good Republican or you’re not a good Democrat if we don’t agree on everything,” and we’ve got to break down those barriers and we’ve got to find the common good to support each other and listen. While we may not agree on everything, the worst day in America is still better than any of the best days in anywhere else in this country. And so, to me, that’s worth fighting for. To me, that’s worth working with folks that I don’t agree with for, and certainly to make sure that my children have the opportunity to enjoy that as well.
That’s what it’s all about.
Casey Rodriguez: Yeah, I think that’s great, and I think a lot of people can learn about what you’re doing for kids at the children’s book age to high school and beyond, and we really value the work that you’re doing on an everyday basis. So, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that with us today.
Randell Trammell: Of course. Thanks, Casey.
