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Freedom Collection

Interviews with Zbigniew and Zofia Romaszewski

Interviewed October 3, 2024

MS. ROMASZEWSKA: Well the significance of Helsinki to us, psychologically, was feeling that we were not all alone. This is the same issue as with Solidarity itself – it is extremely important when you are fighting for something, important to feel that it is of interest to anyone else in the world, besides the ones who are waging that struggle, so that other people existing in the world would gladly lend you their hand.

MR. ROMASZEWSKI: In terms of the Helsinki Accords, and its interpretation – of the so called third basket – I have to say that it was with great relief that we listened to President Jimmy Carter´s declaration of the time recognizing human rights as one of the primary directions of American foreign policy. I remember this like it was today because at that time I was off in the mountains with Antoni Macierewicz. We heard of this and it was something which undoubtedly gave us great comfort. You know, knowing we have this caliber of ally [The Helsinki Accords were an international treaty signed by 35 countries in 1975. They guaranteed basic human rights and promoted cooperation between the Soviet bloc and western nations. Dissidents and activists in the communist countries used their governments’ signatures to the treaty to advocate for freedom and human rights. The Helsinki Accords covered a wide variety of issues, divided into “baskets.” The Third Basket dealt with a range of human rights issues, including freedom of expression and the right to emigrate. By signing the Helsinki Accords, the communist governments committed themselves to respecting these rights. Jimmy Carter was the 39th President of the United States, serving in office from 1977-1981. Antoni Macierwicz was a prominent anticommunist activist who served in parliament after Poland’s transition to democracy].

Incidentally, one has to add that both myself and my wife, ever since the time when Ursus and Radom were resolved [Radom and Ursus were locations of the most intense 1976 protests against rising prices in Poland], because it is noteworthy that we had reached a successful outcome – by 1977 and 1978 all the workers of Ursus and Radom were free [from prison]. July was when the last workers left the jails. And ever since, we had been creating structures. Well, organizational structures. We felt very comfortable with all that, we liked each other socially; we met [gladly], so at this point we had no intent to give up our activity. And so then, the basis of KOR – meaning The Workers’ Defense Committee – created the KSS [Social Self Defense Committee] – KOR [Komitet Obrony Robotników], which in its turn, had a whole slew of items on its plate. So for myself and my wife, our part was to look into issues of law and order, issues of human rights. And for all that, of course there was a huge amount of publication activity. There was… well, you could say we had awoken all kinds of social initiatives. So things which came into being where the SKS [Student Solidarity Committees], the youth organizations, farmer organizations… What else can one say? [The Workers’ Defense Committee (KOR) was an anticommunist underground civil society organization in the 1970s, formed to provide assistance to laborers and others persecuted by the government. It was later renamed the Social Self Defense Committee (KSS).]

MS. ROMASZEWSKA: The Flying University [Originally conceived as an underground educational initiative in Czarist Poland from 1885-1905, the Flying University concept was revived under communism as a way to spread uncensored ideas and philosophy].

MR. ROMASZEWSKI: The Flying University, there were lectures being held. So all these things, you know it was the start of a – I should not say an avalanche but, at any rate, these were the serious beginnings of a social movement.

So the year 1979, when [Pope] John Paul II [Karol Wojtyla, the former Bishop of Krakow became first Polish pope. He led the Catholic Church 1978-2005] paid his visit to Poland, overlapped with a period when a part of Polish society at least was ready and willing to use its liberties. And this was that last point of emphasis which mobilized Solidarity [a labor union formed by Gdansk ship builders that transformed into a nationwide resistance movement].

At any rate, one thing has to be said that at the time when Solidarity was coming about, I was just finishing up writing a report on the state of respect for human rights in Poland which was intended for the Madrid conference [on human rights in Eastern Europe which was held in 1982].

MR. ROMASZEWSKI: What I have to say is that for myself, at that time –

MS. ROMASZEWSKA: When Solidarity was emerging –

MR. ROMASZEWSKI: – when Solidarity was just emerging, was a time when I was taking my doctoral exam, it was Oct. 10, 1980. At the same time, I was finishing up that Madrid Commission Report on Human Rights in Poland, as well as I had to do my own time in jail, because we were all caught and jailed one by one [for dissident activities]. So something that I need to share is, the one thing that was hugely moving in an emotional sense, it was the day I got out of prison and was stepping out into a brand-new Poland.

And I remember about that time, the day I came out of prison [September 1, 1980], me and the wife were treating ourselves, we went out to dinner at a restaurant, we were riding along Nowy Świat [street in Warsaw] on a bus, and directly in front of us rolled a police squad car and right in front of it was a demonstration of some 200 to 300 people, of the KPN [Konfederacja Polski Niepodległej or in English, the Confederation of Independent Poland], I believe they were going to lay flowers at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and in front of them was another squad car, and so this patriotic demonstration was being held in front of our very eyes. And people were turning to each other, cracking big smiles; everyone was extremely helpful, so – well, this was really a completely different country by now. [The Confederation of Independent Poland was the first independent political party in the Eastern bloc countries. Founded in 1979, the party was not recognized by Poland’s communist government and many of its leaders and activists were arrested.]

MS. ROMASZEWSKA: Konfederacja Polski Niepodległej –

MR. ROMASZEWSKI: Konfederacja Polski Niepodległej is right. And the police were not there to beat us, but to shield the demonstration.